Layout SHIFT

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Layout SHIFT

Post  coupe70 on Wed Jan 30, 2013 4:56 pm

Using a button to switch layouts is already implemented.
I would like to use a momentary button to switch to another layout only momentary, like a shift button.

As long as I hold the layout shift button I see the other layout, can push some buttons with other fingers
in this layout and when I release the finger that held the shift button it jumps back to the original layout.

An example would be a dj layout. In the main layout there is only one button called "Loop length" and when
I hold it I see a layout containing all the buttons to select the loop length (1, 2, 4, 8 bars). I select the
loop length, release the shift button and I am back in the main layout.

If you are interested I have at least to different ideas how this could me done.

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Re: Layout SHIFT

Post  Admin on Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:05 pm

er...how do you change layouts if you're still pressing a button on the previous layout? Wink

I totally get what you're asking for. I know ways to do this. I'll add it to the list.

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Re: Layout SHIFT

Post  coupe70 on Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:46 pm

I see two ways to achieve this:

1)
You have a normal button with switch layout functionality, but an additional "shift" option you can tick
which defines that the button does not switch to the other layout permanently.
When you push the shift button in the main layout the app switches to the second layout.

The position of the existing touch (where the shift button was in main layout) is kind of saved, but
not picked up by controllers that might appear at this position in the second layout (you normally
would not put a controller there of course). The app reacts to all additional touches on the second layout
then. When the app recognises a release at the saved position it jumps back to the main layout.

The touch position must be saved as a small area, otherwise the app would not switch back if
you have slightly moved the finger while being in the second layout.



2)
The switch functionality for a button gets a "touch" and a "release" value.
For permanent switching only the touch value would be important.

When you push the shift button in the main layout (set to "touch"=2) the app switches to the
second layout. In this layout you have a shift button on the same position (set to "touch"=2 &
"release"=1). In this version the shift button in the second layout DOES pick up the touch and
kind of switches to layout 2 again (=does nothing). When you release the shift button in
layout 2 it switches back to main layout, because it is set to "release"=1.

The touch must not be picked up by the new layout when the button is defined as permanent switch,
otherwise it could lead to unwanted behaviour of controllers in the new layout.


Hope that makes sense for you...

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Re: Layout SHIFT

Post  Admin on Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:00 pm

actually, nothing make sense to me right now! lol!

At work, I'm in the middle of a corporate merger and the workload is ridiculous and I'm also starting to score a movie right now....

my brain just fried!!

it'll probably make sense when my brain recovers!

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Re: Layout SHIFT

Post  Gildas on Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:58 am

Yes, great add, I was thinking of something like that yesterday, 'cause I can't always put all buttons I need on one layout or when there's a vst strip plugin and then to jump from an eq layout to compression layout quickly.

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Re: Layout SHIFT

Post  coupe70 on Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:24 am

Ok, I will try to illustrate the two ways I was thinking of.
I don't know exactely how Android and your app handle touch events, so I'm assuming here and there...
I also improved version 2, so forget about my explanation in my post above.

Version 1)
I have my main layout with my "momentary switch" which is a normal button switching to layout 2, but with the option "momentary" enabled.


I touch and hold it...


The app immediately switches to layout 2


In layout 2 there is no controller at the position I'm still holding. But the touch event is of course still
recognised by the system. The app will now show layout 2 and accept additional touch events in
this layout...


...UNTIL I take away my "switching finger"


The app then switches back to the *previous* layout (does not have to be layout 1 always)




Version 2)
I have my main layout with my "momentary switch" which is a normal button switching to layout 2, here with an option "trigger on push" (default).


I touch and hold it...


The app immediately switches to layout 2
This time there IS a controller placed at the same position.
It is a switch button set to "switch to layout 1" (or 'previous layout' if you allow that), but with the option "trigger on release".


This button immediately gets pushed, because it picks up the still present touch event.
But nothing will happen now, because the switching is triggered on release.


The app will now show layout 2 and accept additional touch events in this layout...


...UNTIL I take away my "switching finger".


Now that I am releasing the button the programmed "switch to layout 1 (/previous)" is triggered,
because the button is set to "trigger on release"...so the app switches back.




The more I thought about it while illustrating I think that version 1 is more elegant if technically possible.
You only need this one "momentary" option for a switch button and don't have to create additional buttons
in the other layouts to achieve the back-switching.

This would be really powerful as you were able to quickly access several subpages to select/arm/mute tracks,
select fx or loop lengths in DJ software or whatever you need without cluttering your main layout.
And maybe this is quite easy to implement as the (permanent) layout switching is already there...

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Re: Layout SHIFT

Post  Admin on Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:45 am

I think I'll implement both versions. That ways, the app is more flexible and users have the best of both worlds.

Thanks a lot for the detailed explanations - that'll help tremendously when I implement this Smile

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Re: Layout SHIFT

Post  coupe70 on Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:28 am

Well, there are two different philosophies behind the 2 versions, so I guess you have to decide.
But I think I just found something that finally kills version 2:

In layout 1 as I said it is a normal layout switch.
In layout 2 the touch&hold gets picked up by the "switch back on release"-button.

But what if you use a layout switch to permanently go to another layout and
on the position of the switch button is another controller in the other layout ?
This controller would also pick up the touch and would trigger buttons or
cause parameter jumps on faders in the new layout.

Version 1 is safe, because you define on the main layout if you want to switch
to a new layout permanently or not. Ticking the "momentary" option is like saying
"I know what I'm doing". So on default touch events should be discarded when
switching to another layout (this should happen already with the actual switch buttons,
haven't checked if it's handled correctely). Only if the "momentary" option is enabled on
a switch button this single touch event has to be "transferred" and observed.

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Re: Layout SHIFT

Post  Admin on Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:35 am

To be honest, I'm not giving this a huge amount of thought right now because I'm currently scoring a sci-fi movie with a tight deadline, so I'm very focused on scoring right now. Also, I'm won't be dealing with this feature until March or April, so that'll give me plenty of time to think about it Smile

But keep the ideas coming in the meantime.

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Re: Layout SHIFT

Post  coupe70 on Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:47 am

Yeah, I'm just dropping off all my ideas and thoughts here before I forget them Laughing

But this would really be my #2 in top feature requests.

#1 is the small client to get rid of third party software for MIDI functionality.

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Re: Layout SHIFT

Post  Admin on Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:51 am

The small client won't happen any time soon because not only do I have to write a small client (which isn't straightforward at all), but I also have to buy a Mac and write a client for that as well.....

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Re: Layout SHIFT

Post  coupe70 on Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:14 pm

Before I try to monitor the transmissions of your app or dive into Pure Data to find out:
What exactely is transmitted over the network when you assign a MIDI command to a controller ?
Is it a proprietary format or some kind of standard ?

Is it compatible with rtpMIDI http://www.tobias-erichsen.de/software/rtpmidi.html
or NET2MIDI (end of page) http://www.tobybear.de/p_midibag.html ?

Sorry for all these questions. I know all this for iOS and TouchOSC, but not for Android and your app...

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Re: Layout SHIFT

Post  Admin on Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:27 pm

It's transmitted as raw OSC data. Unfortunately, I'm not going to be able to answer more questions. I'm scoring a movie with a tight deadline, so I have to focus on that. Smile

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Re: Layout SHIFT

Post  coupe70 on Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:30 pm

Thanks so far, Mark !

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Re: Layout SHIFT

Post  Admin on Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:34 pm

no prob Smile Thanks for understanding!

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Re: Layout SHIFT

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